Charles Krauthammer has an outstanding collumn today.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2006/09/08/the_time_for_the_iraqis_to_stand_up_is_now?page=full&comments=true

tanabear - as usual - spews liberal nonsense.  Here is I wrote to this dim-wit:

More head in the sand foreign policy
Tanabear:
There was no declaration of victory over the entire job in Iraq in 2003. There was a declaration of victory over Sadaam’s forces in 2003. Since then, the road has been very difficult, but necessary. If we had ignored Iraq, Sadaam’s destabilizing presence would have boiled over. Because Sadaam’s regime was a secular dictatorship – more of a Stalinist then a Islamo fascist true believer – there was no telling who he would attack next. US interests to be sure. Israel? Iran? Saudi Arabia? He was well armed and unpredictable. Sure, Iran and North Korea were dangerous. They are truly terrorist states that are bent on our destruction. But the fact of the matter is that North Korea doesn’t make a more without China’s permission. Iran doesn’t make a more without Russia’s permission. So in a way they are more predictable then Sadaam was. Add to this that Sadaam’s army would probably be the easiest to defeat and you have reason to take action. Never mind all of the UN resolution he flipped the bird to.

The second part of this is that you need to look at the geography of the region. With Afghanistan on its way to a pseudo Islamic democracy, Iraq poses an interesting position in the region. To have a pro western Persian style democracy next door to Iran and Syria really gives Iran pause for thought on any aggressive measures. It emboldens Turkey and Jordan. And it inspires Lebanon. Lastly, it give the Saudi’s reason to flex a little more muscle in the region to secure Arab interests and take action against their own Wahabi terrorists.

So when the word victory is used, it is used with some very specific definitions:
1. Iraq is free from dictatorship (check)
2. Iraq has a stable fully elected government (check – but only recently)
3. Iraq has a government that is recognized by the community of nations as sovereign (check)
4. Iraq no longer has Shiite militias bent on starting civil war with Sunni’s (not yet)
5. Iraq can fully protect itself from outside invaders (not yet)
Once this is done, I believe that we pay a little visit to Basher Al Assad next door and give him a little roughing up. At that point all the questions about WMD’s in Iraq will be answered and Iran will be less one more friend.

So bottom line, you head in the sand liberals have no clue about what is really going on in the region. Your intentional misleading is indicative of your lack of will and your spineless approach to evil in the world. Appeasement is death. Pacifism will only lead to war. Victory is our only option
 

Check out my commnets to the respondants to Kathleen Parker's excellnet piece on Olaf and Steve:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=the_religion_of_peace_--_at_gunpoint&ns=KathleenParker&dt=09/01/2006&page=full&comments=true#7fb554d6-7ed2-4393-833c-40d70657f115

Here is my main point:

This is a shame...
I am really disappointed in the rhetoric that is on this forum. Kill them all? Lots of mushroom clouds? What are we here? Western fascists? This forums reads like a DailyKos forum post in its hate filled rants. I am as hawkish on the was as anyone in these forums. We must win this war. Victory is our only option. The war in Iraq and the war against terror are completely the same thing. The Islamo-fascists (and I do think that is the appropriate terms and I don’t mind using it) want to kill all the Jews and subjugate the rest of humanity. But for the love of God (literal) we cannot stoop to their level of hatred in order to do this. As Benjamin Netanyahu has said recently, if Israel were to lay down her arms, she would be annihilated. If Israel’s enemies were to lay down their arms, there would be peace. We need to keep that in mind. We are not the barbarians. We are not the ones forcefully converting innocents. We are not the ones who are hoping that the mushroom clouds go up over our enemies. We are the ones who want all humans to live according to their own conscience and beliefs. We are the ones who believe in self determination. We are the ones who believe that it is a moral imperative to help the poor, widowed, and the orphaned. Let us not bend down to the cruel rhetoric of our enemies. We can be better then that.

As to Steve’s and Olaf’s “conversion” – I love Jesus with all of my heart, mind, soul, and strength. But I do that from my comfy western lifestyle. I would hope that I would be able to stand up to a gun point conversion, but only with the help of God and the Holy Spirit. But I am human and I am a sinner. I cannot judge those two, it is not for me to do.
 
And here is my rebuttal to Lazlo (whom I almost always agree with):

Lazlo..
Nowhere in my post do I speak of not taking the stick to the wolf - good analogy BTW. What I am saying is that we need to take the moral high ground in not delighting in the annihilation of our enemies and the innocents as collateral. There is a difference. What needs to be done must be done. Victory must be ours. People – Islamo-fascists as well as innocent men, women and children - will suffer and die because of it. And it is the Islamo-fascist that brought the war to us; we did not bring it to them. The blood of the innocents is on their heads, not ours. But we should not gleefully take joy in this. Nor should we wish it to happen. It is very sad that innocents are slain. We must never forget that. In forgetting that - or in glorifying over the death of our enemy and his family, we become like our enemy.

Again, victory over the enemy is our only option. We will kill him until he surrenders unconditionally. But we should never take joy in that.

When we beat the Nazi's and we then beat the Japanese fascists 60 years ago, we were jubilant at the fact the war was over, not that millions had died. And it was only through American charitable hearts and the Judeo / Christian moral absolute to love our brothers and sisters that Germany and Japan are the free countries they are today.
 
I won't even bother with Pilgrim because I am full of too much sentimental crap.  I wonder is some Psillium Husk will take care of that?

As to Goshend not seeing what I saw in the thread - here is a sample form gits4life:

Once the only sane choice is made, I prefer the following simple recipe for a couple hundred years of relative quiet from that corner of the world:

1) Kill everything that moves.

2) Burn everything that doesn't.

3) Poison the wells.

4) Salt the fields.

5) Repeat as required.

As to Lazlo's last point in the thread, fair enough.

If all of this were just a simple matter of economics, then there would be no problems at all. If all of these ME countries cared about their populous and cared about making the lives better for their peoples, then this whole madness in the 1040 zone would be laughed at.

However –

We are dealing with people that are true believers in the cause and care not a whit for their people. Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and the like are bent on 2 goals – kill all the Jews and subjugate the rest of the world. They will stop at nothing to achieve these 2 goals.

That puts Syria a very interesting place. Assad and his crew are Bathists – much in line with Sadaam’s political view. They are in this respect, the classic dictatorships. They are not the True Believers that are in Iran. They are more along the lines of Stalin. Power is their religion. So when we hear that there is talk at the State department of opening up negotiations with Syria that is very interesting. Yes they are in league with Iran, no doubt. However, if they see that Iran can come out on the losing end of this, would they hold true to the cause? I am not so sure.

Syria only stayed true to the cause after the invasion of Iraq because the Coalition stopped at their boarders. Had the Americans gone to Damascus it might have been a different story. Remember, all of those WMD’s that Sadaam had are now in Syria. Would Assad have used them in an invasion? Or would he say, “Look, here they are!!!” in order to save his own skin. Young Basher is not the dictator his father was. He is a foolish idiot. Being linked with Iran could save him or doom him, but my guess is he has not really thought much of this out.

Hey PA folks! As a former citizen of Bloomsburg, and now a citizen of Massachusetts, I have to tell you this story. It is a story of an election between an Republican Senator wanna be and a Democratic Senator incumbent. Now in this story, the Republican was much like our friend Arlan. Not much to hang your R on. There was a Conservative candidate running as an alternative - and I voted for her. Funny thing, the Republican lost by less than the amount than the Conservative candidate got. The Republican - William Weld. The Democrat - John Kerry. Had Weld won, who knows what the 2004 election would have produced. The moral of the story is this: when you sit out an election or vote for an alternative candidate because the Republican candidate doesn't fit your political mold or has done things in the past that make you want to pull your hair out, you are really helping the leftist liberal Dems. William Weld did more to destroy the Republican party in Massachusetts than any Democrat could hope for. He put a sign on the front lawn of the State House: "Conservatives Go Home!". He really was the most maddening governor we ever had (at least with the Duke you knew where you stood). But I totally regret not voting for him in his Senate race. The unintended consequences, in hindsight, are too grim.

Head in the Sand Foreign Policy

In response to Charles Krauthammer's article and responses:
http://townhall.com/columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2006/08/11/lamonts_victory_will_hurt_democrats_in_the_long_run

Contrary to what Left and Phylo (and to a small degree Charles himself) have been arguing, this is not about elections per se.  It is about defining this nation’s foreign policy in such a way that we can survive in a world that is brutally hostile to  our way of life.  The Left’s mantra of “We are for the war on terror but not for the war in Iraq” is the death of their credibility to defining policy.  This Head in the Sand approach leaves them exposed to their true nature.  “Fight the war on terror only if it involves not fighting.  Fighting the war on terror should never involve picking up arms to do battle.  It should involve sitting down and discussion the issues over nice cup of herbal tea.  If only we understood these poor  people who only want to survive and live peacefully in this world.  Then they won’t hate us.”

BAH!!!

That is most assuredly what the fascists want.  It gives them time to reach around our comfy chairs and plant that dagger square in our backs.  These are undeniable facts that the Left will continue to deny:

1.       The war in Iraq is a large part of the war on Terror

2.       Islamo-fascists want to kill every last Jew in the world and want to subjugate the rest of the world to their  ideology

3.       It will take fighting, death, and much bloodshed before this war is over

4.       We will have to shed blood to secure this nation and most of the world

5.       Israel must survive in order  keep our nation safe

Imagine the world where the US immediately pulls out of Iraq and Israel is pushed into the Mediterranean.   Imagine the strength of the Islamo-fascists  as they gain control of Iraq / Jordan / Lebanon / Saudi Arabia / Pakistan / Afghanistan / Palestine (kiss Jerusalem goodbye) / Egypt / Morocco /  Spain.  That is the reality of the Left’s foreign policy.