Charles Krauthammer has an outstanding collumn today.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2006/09/08/the_time_for_the_iraqis_to_stand_up_is_now?page=full&comments=true

tanabear - as usual - spews liberal nonsense.  Here is I wrote to this dim-wit:

More head in the sand foreign policy
Tanabear:
There was no declaration of victory over the entire job in Iraq in 2003. There was a declaration of victory over Sadaam’s forces in 2003. Since then, the road has been very difficult, but necessary. If we had ignored Iraq, Sadaam’s destabilizing presence would have boiled over. Because Sadaam’s regime was a secular dictatorship – more of a Stalinist then a Islamo fascist true believer – there was no telling who he would attack next. US interests to be sure. Israel? Iran? Saudi Arabia? He was well armed and unpredictable. Sure, Iran and North Korea were dangerous. They are truly terrorist states that are bent on our destruction. But the fact of the matter is that North Korea doesn’t make a more without China’s permission. Iran doesn’t make a more without Russia’s permission. So in a way they are more predictable then Sadaam was. Add to this that Sadaam’s army would probably be the easiest to defeat and you have reason to take action. Never mind all of the UN resolution he flipped the bird to.

The second part of this is that you need to look at the geography of the region. With Afghanistan on its way to a pseudo Islamic democracy, Iraq poses an interesting position in the region. To have a pro western Persian style democracy next door to Iran and Syria really gives Iran pause for thought on any aggressive measures. It emboldens Turkey and Jordan. And it inspires Lebanon. Lastly, it give the Saudi’s reason to flex a little more muscle in the region to secure Arab interests and take action against their own Wahabi terrorists.

So when the word victory is used, it is used with some very specific definitions:
1. Iraq is free from dictatorship (check)
2. Iraq has a stable fully elected government (check – but only recently)
3. Iraq has a government that is recognized by the community of nations as sovereign (check)
4. Iraq no longer has Shiite militias bent on starting civil war with Sunni’s (not yet)
5. Iraq can fully protect itself from outside invaders (not yet)
Once this is done, I believe that we pay a little visit to Basher Al Assad next door and give him a little roughing up. At that point all the questions about WMD’s in Iraq will be answered and Iran will be less one more friend.

So bottom line, you head in the sand liberals have no clue about what is really going on in the region. Your intentional misleading is indicative of your lack of will and your spineless approach to evil in the world. Appeasement is death. Pacifism will only lead to war. Victory is our only option
 

Check out my commnets to the respondants to Kathleen Parker's excellnet piece on Olaf and Steve:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=the_religion_of_peace_--_at_gunpoint&ns=KathleenParker&dt=09/01/2006&page=full&comments=true#7fb554d6-7ed2-4393-833c-40d70657f115

Here is my main point:

This is a shame...
I am really disappointed in the rhetoric that is on this forum. Kill them all? Lots of mushroom clouds? What are we here? Western fascists? This forums reads like a DailyKos forum post in its hate filled rants. I am as hawkish on the was as anyone in these forums. We must win this war. Victory is our only option. The war in Iraq and the war against terror are completely the same thing. The Islamo-fascists (and I do think that is the appropriate terms and I don’t mind using it) want to kill all the Jews and subjugate the rest of humanity. But for the love of God (literal) we cannot stoop to their level of hatred in order to do this. As Benjamin Netanyahu has said recently, if Israel were to lay down her arms, she would be annihilated. If Israel’s enemies were to lay down their arms, there would be peace. We need to keep that in mind. We are not the barbarians. We are not the ones forcefully converting innocents. We are not the ones who are hoping that the mushroom clouds go up over our enemies. We are the ones who want all humans to live according to their own conscience and beliefs. We are the ones who believe in self determination. We are the ones who believe that it is a moral imperative to help the poor, widowed, and the orphaned. Let us not bend down to the cruel rhetoric of our enemies. We can be better then that.

As to Steve’s and Olaf’s “conversion” – I love Jesus with all of my heart, mind, soul, and strength. But I do that from my comfy western lifestyle. I would hope that I would be able to stand up to a gun point conversion, but only with the help of God and the Holy Spirit. But I am human and I am a sinner. I cannot judge those two, it is not for me to do.
 
And here is my rebuttal to Lazlo (whom I almost always agree with):

Lazlo..
Nowhere in my post do I speak of not taking the stick to the wolf - good analogy BTW. What I am saying is that we need to take the moral high ground in not delighting in the annihilation of our enemies and the innocents as collateral. There is a difference. What needs to be done must be done. Victory must be ours. People – Islamo-fascists as well as innocent men, women and children - will suffer and die because of it. And it is the Islamo-fascist that brought the war to us; we did not bring it to them. The blood of the innocents is on their heads, not ours. But we should not gleefully take joy in this. Nor should we wish it to happen. It is very sad that innocents are slain. We must never forget that. In forgetting that - or in glorifying over the death of our enemy and his family, we become like our enemy.

Again, victory over the enemy is our only option. We will kill him until he surrenders unconditionally. But we should never take joy in that.

When we beat the Nazi's and we then beat the Japanese fascists 60 years ago, we were jubilant at the fact the war was over, not that millions had died. And it was only through American charitable hearts and the Judeo / Christian moral absolute to love our brothers and sisters that Germany and Japan are the free countries they are today.
 
I won't even bother with Pilgrim because I am full of too much sentimental crap.  I wonder is some Psillium Husk will take care of that?

As to Goshend not seeing what I saw in the thread - here is a sample form gits4life:

Once the only sane choice is made, I prefer the following simple recipe for a couple hundred years of relative quiet from that corner of the world:

1) Kill everything that moves.

2) Burn everything that doesn't.

3) Poison the wells.

4) Salt the fields.

5) Repeat as required.

As to Lazlo's last point in the thread, fair enough.